Amy Morgan - Chief Product Officer and Innovator
Full episode transcript:
Kellie Kemock 00:00
Today we have Amy Morgan on the podcast. So she is the Chief Product Officer of a startup called FlavorCloud that started in September 2017. And I'm really excited to hear about your your new role. Can you tell us a little bit more about where you are today? And then you know, your career path? And how how it took you to where you are today?
Amy Morgan 00:23
Oh, for sure. Yeah, thank you for just asking me and inviting me to be on your podcast, I've been listening. And you've had quite a distinguished array of women on this podcast. So, I'm very honored. Thank you. Yeah, FlavorCloud Chief Product Officer, I am on week three in this new role, and I couldn't be more excited. FlavorCloud is an end-to-end a cross border solution that enables online merchants to sell their products internationally. Everybody who's listening, or most of the people listening to this podcast know how hard cross border shipping and compliance is? So how do we democratize that for this new modern retailer, the merchant? So that's what we do.
Kellie Kemock 01:11
First of all, let's talk about your title Chief Product Officer. What are you what are you managing as Chief Product Officer?
Amy Morgan 01:18
So, in the technology space, when we talk about the product, we're talking about the technology product, we're talking about the technology that we're selling. So as Chief Product Officer, my responsibility is really to prioritize what features need to be made to or be built into the product to make it more usable, more friendly, more intuitive, provide more value to the user, right? So, a big piece of my job is strategy. What features do we need to build for the future? Where is the market going? What do our customers need to be successful? If I have customers that are using us today, how can I help them sell more internationally? How do I make that easier for them? So that's like a very high-level explanation of the title. And it's very similar to what I did at Avalara, which is where I came from just before this, think of it as like the mini-CEO of the product, just the product, not the business, just the product.
Kellie Kemock 02:20
Is there any aspect of your role that is compliance and making sure that, you know, the laws of each country are complied with? Is that a different role altogether?
Amy Morgan 02:32
Oh, no, that's very much in the role. So, because FlavorCloud the product is an end-to-end solution that enables merchants to sell globally, that includes the shipping. And we all know that shipping is only successful when it arrives at its destination. And compliance is a big piece of how you get some international transaction actually delivered. So. So compliance is inherent in the product that we're building. If I have customers who struggle with compliance, or we find out that the shipments that we are facilitating are non-compliant for any reason in whatever geography that comes back to me, how do I fix whatever went wrong? Or how do I fix whatever was, whatever oversight may have existed to ensure that doesn't happen again. So, we work really hard. But you know, when you're innovating in a tech product, or tech environment like this, you may not capture every but what I have going for me is that I've been doing compliance related work for nearly 20 years. I'm a licensed US Customs broker, my origin stories and compliance, I come from big business to business compliance. So, it's just sort of in my DNA already. So, I can't look at something and not think about the compliance aspects of it.
Kellie Kemock 03:50
So, it's not just that the the product that you're selling is making things easier, though. So how does the product also help the client save on shipping and compliance costs?
Amy Morgan 04:02
FlavorCloud is the largest has the largest network of carriers from which a merchant can choose? And we have an algorithm that selects the appropriate carrier option or ship option from our 200 Plus carrier options in our network for the transaction. So, it's a real time shopping cart optimization experience. So merchant, an online merchant doesn't have to sit there and think every time they have an international transaction. Oh, should I use ups for this one and DHL for that one? Does this carrier ship to Saudi Arabia? Does this carrier handle lithium-ion batteries like they don't have time to think about that in an E commerce environment? It has to be instant; it has to be reliable, and it has to provide the best possible rates the cheapest, most affordable options. So, all of us as consumers, right sometimes we will pay more to get something faster. Or sometimes it's not urgent. So, we'll be patient. And we'll choose the more cost-effective option. But we need to be able to select from options that are appropriate to that transaction. And the merchant is not going to think about it all the merchant cares about is that they are selling to their consumer that their consumer has a good experience. And that doesn't just end in the shopping cart, right, you can make a beautiful website, where customers can find exactly what they need, and get it in the shopping cart. But if you don't make that checkout experience, and that shipping selection experience easy, if you don't actually get the product to deliver on time, when you said it was gonna be delivered, all those things are gonna start eroding that customer experience. And that's what the merchant cares about. So that's what we help solve.
Kellie Kemock 05:51
This product is a business to business solution, right?
Amy Morgan 05:53
So, it's, we sell to businesses, so we would sell to merchants, but we sell to merchants who sell direct to consumer, we say d to c.
Kellie Kemock 06:03
And it is for the merchant to decide how to ship, the consumer actually doesn't actually see your product.
Amy Morgan 06:09
No, the the merchant doesn't have to choose. That's the beautiful thing about what FlavorCloud does, we choose for the merchant. But the merchants say say if you have an online store, and you want to offer to your customers, an expedited DDP option, standard DDP option. And let's say an express DDU option, that is what you configure, and then our algorithm does the rest so that you don't have to think about it, we examine what the product is, we examine the route. So, the to from countries, we examine the customs regulations. So, we do that instantly, so that we only present say, three options in the shopping cart, and then the consumer selects.
Kellie Kemock 06:54
So, you sent me an article, which hopefully I can link to in the podcast notes as well. In that article, it mentions that you know, the industry is broken, can you kind of expand on how the industry is broken, and maybe how your product might be helping to fix it.
Amy Morgan 07:12
So again, we're all very familiar with how difficult it is to get a to get anything across borders for commercial purposes, whether it's a pallet a container, or a small, little package. It's difficult if it's being sold for commercial purposes, there are customs regulations, you have to deal with different carriers. There's paperwork involved, all of these things. So just like in a traditional trade compliance environment, there's one person that knows the compliance stuff. And maybe you have to go deal with a customs broker. There's one person that deals with transportation, and you have to deal with the carrier and what is the rate you have to negotiate the rates, then you have to negotiate the rates for ship options that might be dependent upon what kind of product you're selling, or products that gets shipped together. And then you have to deal with carriers that may or may not service, particular geographies. So all of these things very fragmented. On top of that, in my trade compliance experience, some of the biggest issues is just the paperwork, the commercial invoice, does it properly describe the product, the invoice value isn't accurate, the terms of sale aren't clear. Perhaps you need a phytosanitary certificate, and you didn't know that what the heck is a phytosanitary certificate. So, stuff gets stuck in customs, and you have to deal with so many people. Now think about, if you are in an e-commerce environment, where you're shipping small packages, you're not as big as a Walmart or a Target or an Amazon. So where do you go for customer service, who helps you help your customer who helps you provide a positive experience when all you're trying to do is sell to customers all over the world who want your products. That's what we mean when it's broken. This space, this industry wasn't made, you know, with e-commerce in mind. It was built for big companies, right? This was the 90s the mod x right? It was businesses doing business overseas, importing their raw materials, so that they could sell tons of stuff and make lots of money. E-commerce is changing the calculus on a lot of this, and it doesn't work for them.
Kellie Kemock 09:25
How did you get here 20 years of experience and then you know, what do you use every day still?
Amy Morgan 09:31
I've joked with other people that I'm the the Forrest Gump of trade compliance, if you will, I kind of I feel like I've grown up with this thing we call trade compliance. So, let's go back to the 90s for a second. I'm in college at the University of Washington. I'm studying political science. And I take one amazing class on international economy. I can't remember exactly what it was. But we were talking about the banana trade wars. And oh my god if I wasn't hooked, right, so I started reading all that global trade stuff that was hot at the time, like Thomas Friedman. I've got the Lexus and the Olive Tree right here behind me. This was the first trade book that changed my life that made globalization this hot buzz term. And I was just like, I couldn't get enough, I was obsessed with how humans just naturally have this instinct to connect with each other, whether it's trading goods, or services, or ideas. And I just, I was fascinated. And this is before the internet, remember, like this is, this is just we're trading bananas. That is the thing that got me hooked on this topic. So, I kept with political science, but I ended up taking another two years in what the University of Washington called the global trade and transportation logistics program. And I mean, it's just my damn own dumb luck, that that the UW even had a program like this, and it was all about EDI. You learned about planes, trains, and automobiles, you learned about letters of credit, like old school trade stuff. But what that program did was open up so many doors, I ended up interning at the Port of Seattle, in the seaport. I was an intern for the World Trade Organization, Seattle host committee. So, the committee that was responsible for bringing that the battle in Seattle in 1999, to Seattle. I was I worked at the World Trade Centre in Seattle. I did all of these things while I was still in college because I had to be a part of this thing. I couldn't really tell you what it was yet. But I knew it was big and important. And there were so many different pieces. Like I hadn't even discovered compliance yet. That hadn't that wasn't yet like a big thing. So, it'd be graduates from college. I'm working as a barista in a Starbucks downtown Seattle. Back then Starbucks was still this really cool, very kind of Bohemian sort of place. So, it was cool to be a barista at a Starbucks back then. And you get to know your customers. And every day I noticed these two guys would come in, they would grab coffee, and they'd go sit at a table and they would work. Now again, this is now we're talking about 9998 98. Sad. Yeah. So I would watch them work. And I'm like, Oh, this is really interesting. What do you guys even do? I was Mundos, total smartass. I was very obnoxious person. And I'm like, so what do you guys do? You come in every day. And you just set up an office over here in the quarter? And they said, Well, we have an online transportation management company. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. No, what are the chances that here I am. I just graduated from U DUB. I studied trade and transportation. And I'm a global trade enthusiast that these guys have an online startup, a 1999 startup that that did exactly the stuff that I was that I was interested in. So, we I took a break, and I sat down at their table inserted myself with their conversation. And long story short, I ended up working there. Now I only worked there for a year the company got sold, and whatnot. But I made my own path. In that instance, my very first trade job was was the Dot.com in the 90s. So, we all know how that ended up. So the 90s Dot.com bust, and then I went to work at Nordstrom, I happened to take a class as part of that GTL program on EDI, oh my god talk about US news of a class but was on EDI, but that Job did. Nordstrom was looking to hire an EDI compliance analyst. I can define EDI. It's a, you know, 30 year old technology that a lot of the trade industry is still very much user of, but it was like how ASNs and invoices and documents were exchanged, you know, back in the day, so Nordstrom was hiring this. I needed a job. I got the job. And as you know, a couple years in, I discovered that Nordstrom had a trade compliance department. But when I discovered trade compliance, I just thought like the world had cracked open and Angel started singing and unicorns were dancing, and rainbows were everywhere. Because I'm a nerd, and that kind of stuff turns me on. It started me off like just assigning tariff codes to products. It's all I did. And it was the best time like if any of any of you guys who are into tear classification, it takes a special kind of dorky person to love that stuff. And I am that person.
Kellie Kemock 14:40
Yes, I love that too. Because what is it I even love doing taxes the same reason why I love classifying is because it's like a choose your own adventure like you read this and you're like okay, well then I have to go here then I have to look at this and then they have to analyze this and you just kind of build it all together. It's like a little puzzle and yet I am totally right there with you. Trainers who enjoy classifying forever.
Amy Morgan 15:04
Now that okay, so Nordstrom is what introduced me to Detroit compliance. I studied for the brokers exam. I passed the brokers exam. I started with doing audits and all of the basic trade compliance stuff. And the more I got into it, the more I was hooked on, like you said, the puzzle I was hooked on, on being right about supporting the right answer. And I wanted more than the United States. And at that time, Nordstrom was only importing into the US and no x. So, wanting more, I went to Costco Wholesale, another Seattle local Seattle company, where I got to do the same thing. But I became a manager there. Costco is a huge company, we were starting to export. We do imports into all of North America. So, it took me it definitely elevated my classification game. But I had at that time, what what else popped up CT Pat came on board, ISF became a thing. All of these new regulations popped up that forced me to grow and learn and expand my knowledge. I wrote some brilliant binding ruling requests you can still find on cross today, all 72 of them are out there. Wow. So, Costco was awesome. Costco was really cool. But again, I don't sit still very well. If I'm not growing, I'm not happy. So, I wanted more. I went to Amazon after that. And you have. And that's what I had to say stop like, so Amazon will take as much as you will give it I love Amazon. I love the people there. I am a customer, all of the good things. But it was it was crazy. I wanted worldwide, I got worldwide, and it was one of the greatest experiences. But the cool thing about my my role at Amazon is that's where I really started to get my hands and mind around these merchants. So, we most of us are familiar with the term FBA fulfilment by Amazon. So, it's not Amazon fulfilling the product, it's the merchant, but they're using Amazon to to do this. Okay, so I started to watch the rise of these online merchants. And I thought to myself, wow, they need compliance help. They just don't know it yet. So why, why this is where we can take trade compliance that Amazon is already doing, right? We're moving Kindles and Kindle products all over the world, then why can't I use my trade compliance department, then we could sell our services as a premium to these merchants, now we become a profit center instead of cost centers brilliant. But Amazon, we were growing so fast at that time, that we couldn't, we never quite got to that place. But what I took away from from that experience is like, okay, these, these merchants need help. They just don't know it. I ended up taking this idea, this whole nugget of an idea. I left Amazon, and I started fleshing out how I could turn this into a business. I went out on my own, I took my broker's license, and I got a national permit. I was a, I was a broker out of my basement out of here for small local Seattle companies, because I wanted to test my hypothesis that online merchants needed the same help as big companies, only they didn't know it and they weren't going to buy it. So how do I turn this into a business? I proved my hypothesis, I did something crazy. A my a friend of mine, convinced me to take my idea to what's called a Startup Weekend, not know if you've ever heard of what one of these things, but they're these technology meetups, if you will, where you go, you pitch your idea to roomful of 20 year old engineers. And if they like your idea, they'll join your team. And then over the course of one weekend, you hack out a rough prototype of your product, and then you have to pitch it. Now it's nerve racking. It's like Shark Tank. So, I did that I pick you don't know sheer fear until you stand up as a at that time, a late 30 something in front of a roomful of 20 year olds who are used to hearing about dating apps and pet sitting apps and food delivery products. And you pitch them this idea about how you can make global trade easy for online sellers. I was so nervous, they laughed me out of the room. But I got the biggest group of people because all these engineers wanted to solve a real problem, not just another, you know, frivolous photo app or something like that. So, at the end of the weekend, we pitched to a panel of VCs in the area, and we won first place. Now I'm over the moon geeky idea over one weekend and we won first place so I'm like there's a there there. I have an idea. And it's worth something. So, I couldn't raise any money. But fortunately Avalara, a tax software company here in the Seattle area was trying to do something very similar. Avalara does, they calculate sales tax as a technology solution is what they do. That's their bread and butter. And at the time, they were trying to build, they wanted to build a landed cost calculator. So to us, we all know what that means. And bless Avalara heart, they knew what it was, they just didn't know all of the different nuances that go into calculating the landed cost. So, I joined Avalara with all of my ideas from my own little startup, and we built a landed cost calculator, we were doing some really cool things. But again, you guys by this time, you know me well enough to know that that's just not good enough for me, right? I need to keep moving this idea forward. So FlavorCloud, there's a the woman, the CEO and founder of FlavorCloud Rathna Sharad, is a brilliant and inspiring human being. She's and I have been industry friends for several years. I'm a big fan of what she was doing. I've watched her build this company. And like that they're doing it right. I need to go be a part of that. Now. I did the landed cost. I did the compliance. I did all that cool stuff at Avalara. Now I want to let's go solve the shipping. Let's go take care of the shipping and compliance logistics piece. And that that's the super long evolution of me. Yay.
Kellie Kemock 21:33
That is so amazing. So, the overarching theme of your development is innovation. I mean, are you able to talk about innovation?
Amy Morgan 21:44
Can I talk about innovation, I wish your your reader could see my video? Have you missed? I don't know if you saw this on LinkedIn. And for the people listening, I'm holding up. One of my proudest moments last year, it's still to 2019 I was named one of the Puget Sound region. That's where Seattle is where the Puget Sound here in King County, Washington State. And I was named one of the 12 innovators by the Puget Sound Business Journal of 2019. So, I was very proud of that. So, you're right on but the innovation being the steam but the the reason I was recognized was because I really am an advocate of pushing the envelope in industries that that need it. And those under served industries like trade and compliance things. Nobody thinks about how their stuff got to where it is, and there's all the little steps involved. And here I am shining a light on it. And the fact that the Business Journal the PSP day, recognize that was one of my proudest moments making trade compliance sexy and great again, right. But but innovation is kind of the norm right now. We have to we have to be innovative. And in trade compliance, where the rules the regulations weren't built for the new for the modern commercial environment, we have to innovate. How do I take the trade compliance, the code, the harmonized tariff codes be Rules of Origin? How do I take all of these really heavy concepts and make them accessible to not a big business to business importer, you have to be innovative. And I think anybody who doesn't have that innovative mindset in trade compliance now is really doing themselves a disservice.
Kellie Kemock 23:30
So I just read design thinking, or I listened to the audiobook design thinking and I have, every time I open up my spreadsheet and put down a new idea that 19 ideas, and I really am learning a lot about innovation, I love that you were talking about how you tested your hypothesis, you made a prototype, you had all of these steps that are part of the innovation landscape and and he literally just went through the entire book that I read, right, like everything you did follow a step by step and and I do think that trade compliance is an antiquated kind of industry and then you know, it's our job to to bring it up to the modern time you are fixing the broken shipping industry and putting algorithms to things that were done on paper years ago, so absolutely, where we need to go with trade compliance. And that was one of my questions was What do you think the future of trade compliance looks like?
Amy Morgan 24:28
Well, there are a lot of companies working on that idea right now. And that's why it is so exciting for people to get into this space once they know about So awareness is the first thing know that this space exists and then there's so many cool things going on for for anybody to find their niche in this space. So So the future is is here. So right now, the future is e-commerce the future is how do we apply the rules we know about today to right now that That's what we're solving. Now. Now, if you look beyond today, what happens when maybe we aren't moving physical products across borders, we're moving the idea of a product across the border for someone to 3d print at their own home. How do you tax that? What is the harmonized tariff code for my really cool Kanye West ceramic mug, if I'm going to print it, rather than import it from Vietnam, that's where I think things will will ultimately go. But we're thinking like way into the future. Right now, we have to figure out how to get our hands and minds around this e commerce this cross border e commerce environment, which is only increasing, you can't No matter how high you make that direct if you're not going to put the demand for foreign goods back in the box.
Kellie Kemock 25:50
And I guess my my question was quite narrow because I I'm in the trade compliance space, I forget to use terminology like international trade. And I always say trade compliance, but as our conversation has touched on to compliance is a very small portion of what is international trade. So, I guess a broader question would be What is the future of international trade in general? What about you know, transportation? What about environmental regulations and sustainability that are all coming to be highly important to different countries? Like how does that change international trade?
Amy Morgan 26:27
You know, that is a really awesome question. And I don't have answers for you. All I can do is speculate, but I'm trying really hard myself to understand that as well. I think I just downloaded a white paper about cross border e-commerce and the environment, you're talking about more planes in the air and less boats on the water, you're talking about packaging cardboard, this is coming off of the fires in the rain forest. I mean, it's, there's so much happening, I don't I wish I had a crystal ball or a magic eight ball or something that would tell us where we need to go. But it's exciting no matter what you could find like there are so many jobs in in new energy sources. Look at Elon Musk. And I thought I saw a picture on Instagram of a completely electric I want to call it a steamship. But what do you call it? If it's not a steamship? If it's an electric ship, with containers on it? Like? How will containers change? So everything like from the hardware and the infrastructure? What happens if trucks start flying? Like we could go on and on and on about this stuff? But it's it's trade is everywhere, right? So, when you talk about innovation, you're talking about everything from packaging and trade compliance and social responsibility. That's your climate and your social aspects of your products and how you're shipping. You're talking about geopolitical environments, trade wars, you're talking about you name, it pointed, something like it's the innovation and the opportunity to plug yourself into international trade as an industry is bigger than it's ever been. And that, to me is exciting. That's why I can't just sit still, I can't just sit here and watch parts of this industry evolve and move forward and not be a part of that. As much as I love classification. I can't just sit there and classify I need to go change the way people classify or need to change the way the world trades. That's always been one of my missions.
Kellie Kemock 28:25
I don't mean to ask you, you know, these surprise questions. It's just we're seeing all of these innovations. We're seeing, you know, your new product coming up, and it's going to change the world. Like, it's so silly to say that broad, but it will, because everyone else is going to have to follow suit. Regulations, and economists are going to have to follow suit and understand what how that affects the status quo. Okay, so what piece of knowledge or experience do you use every day in your current role?
Amy Morgan 28:59
I think in the last well, let's say my entire trade compliance for nearly 20 years, the Tariff Schedule, I think that's like the one super common denominator across every role I've had, because whether it was starting off as an entry level position at Nordstrom, right assigned to the codes, all the way through to Avalara, where the code is responsible for for calculating the landed cost to something you need to know the rate, which means you need to know the code. So, I think that is one of the greatest common denominators is really understanding the Tariff Schedule and not just the hierarchy, not just the, you know, the funny tariff specific language and how to read it, but really knowing how to apply it. So, if you're an enterprising person working for Well, anybody really, I understand how to tariff engineer something can make you a rock star, knowing if your product is subject to certain and regulations is all dependent upon the tariff code. Being able to automate the classification, so we I come from a place where I have the I still have the old timey Tariff Schedule all like 11 inches of it, it's in my garage. But I had to do it by hand. There are solutions now that are there. Not all of them are great, some are better than others, but they're all working really hard and innovating on how do we make tariff classification easy. So, I would say, Yeah, I would, I would have to hang my hat on understanding the harmonized Tariff Schedule.
Kellie Kemock 30:39
It really is the basis of everything it seems in trade compliance, because you don't know what laws or costs are involved until you know what the product is. And you and everything stems from from the HTS code? That's right. Yeah. You can stare at you know, that that 11 inch, you know, list of stack of papers of, of all that data for as long as you want. But the secondary piece of that is, you know, I spend most of my time just reading Customs rulings now, and like other people's binding, other people's work like yours, binding rulings that you submitted, just to get an understanding of, of how, how the logic is applied. And in technology is advancing so fast that you know, a binding ruling in 2009, it talks about technology that is no longer even used anymore. So how can you classify a new technological item that came out when, you know, the custom custom CBP hasn't even taken that into account?
Amy Morgan 31:52
Well, in I think Intel, Intel, the process, until the customs authorities involved themselves to evolve the binding ruling process, we're kind of stuck with some of these, the tools we have in front of us. So in my in previous lives, right at Amazon, or any of these companies who might be importing research and development material, black box stuff super-secret, the next great genius invention, and that technology doesn't exist in a lot of ways you may have to educate the customs authorities yourself. I remember working for Amazon, and we had to explain to that you have to explain to the German customs authorities, how a Kindle is different than a regular book, like think about that, right. So the role of a trade compliance professional, and maybe this is the future here is we have to educate our customs authorities, we need to educate the regulators, because they're certainly not going to have all of these answers. And it doesn't even have to be high tech. In my life at Costco. I remember, I think I even have some rulings out there. That had to do with valves, like fountains and valves and faucets and things like that. And I had to go down to the Seattle field office and with an actual sample and share with them explain to them the different types of valves and make sure that they understood so that they could give me the best guidance. And that sort of a partnership is great when you're Costco but if you are a seller on Amazon or seller on Etsy, or you are an E commerce merchant, you have no idea that you even need to do something like this. So well, that's part of why I'm so passionate about solving this problem, because now I can be the middle guy for those merchants and helped advocate. But it might be a, it's on us, I think the onus is on us to educate our regulators.
Kellie Kemock 33:47
So my role previous to my current role was at Thomson Reuters. And so I worked on their global trade management software, and no small company is going to be able to afford this massive piece of software that allows these big companies to to handle their compliance. And so that it might, you might think of it as like a cost of entry into the business is so high because compliance, you know, is such is so costly to these smaller companies.
Amy Morgan 34:21
Well, it's true, but it's my it's my feeling that it doesn't have to be in that what we know of as trade compliance today unless yes, there's a cost of doing business. And yes, a lot of us come from backgrounds where we had to buy big pieces of software to help us do our jobs. But that's where I talk about the space is changing in that we how do we make trade compliance or compliance period? Well, that's just a compliance, organic to the business processes that this new commercial seller is is doing today. So, they don't even know that they're doing compliance, but they're being compliant. So if I can be a part of a software solution that does that, that inherently keeps the sellers compliant without them knowing that it's compliance, then then I'm winning. Because one thing I learned when I had my own startup and I was testing my hypothesis is that yeah, they, these merchants, they need help. They need trade compliance help. But what I also learned is that they won't buy it, they will not spend money on it, because they don't think they need to, they believe it comes with whatever shipping service that they're buying, or what that they've partnered with or contracted with to to move their stuff. So, they are not going to spend money on compliance. So how do I instill compliance into what they're already doing? So that they can be successful, and their products can move seamlessly to where they're going.
Kellie Kemock 36:01
And we can pivot to a completely different topic. Did you have any advice about being you know, only woman in the room or you know how to deal with a gender issues in the workplace.
Amy Morgan 36:19
Remember, back in the in my origin story, I studied in the late 90s, a global trade transportation logistics program at the University of Washington, and I was one of two women in this program, this entire program, I don't really see the word no, as an obstacle, I just see it as something I need to, you know, I can I can get around this. So, it's not like I saw the lack of women as being a deterrent from the space, I just, you know, I just kept charging forward and never really thought about it. And then the longer I worked in trade, I noticed on the trade compliance side, lots of women, lots of women are customs brokers, and work in brokerage offices and work in trade compliance. My first trade compliance manager was a woman. My second trade compliance manager was a woman now that I think about it actually, all of my trade compliance managers are women, when I when I think, but when you have to deal with the shipping side, that's where it becomes more male dominated in technology as well. So being a woman, a woman in technology, the last six, seven, many years, that's when it wasn't because of trade or because of shipping. It was because of technology, where I found myself being the only woman, the only executive around the table that looks like you know, me. And that was it was hard. So, if I were to give any advice on that, it's to not compromise yourself. Don't make yourself small, and play small because you think that's the role that you're supposed to play. I know that sounds like an Instagram motivational post or something, but it's really true. And I think it's worth repeating that take up space, be heard speak up. Because if you if you have a question, chances are everybody else has the question. But men are wired differently, they may not ask it, you ask it, you look like the smartest person in the room. If you speak with confidence, you know, your material, and all, all the women that I've had the pleasure of working with they, they are the smartest person they are the smartest people in the room. Not everybody speaks up. Not everyone takes that idea they had an X on it. So my advice on on the issue of gender is to take up space to be heard, and to to act on whatever crazy idea might pop into your head to just to try something different. And if you fail, you fail fast, and you move on to something else. Like take what you know and just continue to evolve yourself. And as you evolve yourself, you're providing that value back to your your company and you're creating your brand, your own personal reputation as somebody who is fearless, who is knowledgeable, who is isn't afraid to speak up and be a very active participant around the table no matter how many other women are around that table. And I'll tell you one other funny gender thing because it is on my bucket list. It's been on my bucket list to make the cover of American shipper magazine. How dorky is that? I don't know why or where this came from. But I remember about four years ago, American shipper great publication. This is not a a dig on it on American shipper by any means. I love those guys. But I remember there was a cover. And the cover was and I think I have it around here was the changing face of global trade. And it was for middle to you know, older white men. And I'm like, wait a second. That's not the change. In Facebook, I guess for a long time for as as inspiration, right? So, but I think it is changing. I think we're in that moment right now. So, it is a great time for women in trade to be recognized.
Kellie Kemock 40:16
Do you have any advice on mentoring or career advancement or any sort of advice you might have for women who might be interested in in getting into this type of field?
Amy Morgan 40:32
So, my advice to any woman, anyone, actually, but any any anyone who's listening to this podcast who wants to get into the trade space is one to understand the the landscape enough to know that there are a million different things underneath this whole trade umbrella, we talked about the shipping side, we've talked about the compliance side, you and I both have technology experience, right. So, technology's this whole thing, or whatever it is, but first, know that it's huge. And there is a role for everyone. But what people need more than ever of all the people I've ever interviewed, the stuff that I'm looking for, regardless of your educational experience, or where you came from, is your ability to think differently. Trade compliance specifically is about rules and about regulations. They're they're very defined parameters that we need to work within. But I look for people and I am attracted to people who can think differently about how we achieve the parameters, how we achieve those rules, while accommodating whoever the customer is, whatever problem we're trying to solve. So, thinking differently, and being creative, and not being afraid to do something different. In the name of compliance. I know people are very skittish about that, oh, we don't want to be wrong, or we don't want to take responsibility or there's too much risk here. But that is that the magic is in that risk. So not being afraid to think differently. And like I've said it earlier, and I'll say it again, is you're not always going to do it right? You will fail sometimes. And that is actually okay. But if you fail, fail fast, get back up, try something. Next, try something new. So that would be one piece of advice. And my other piece is something that I practice constantly I practiced when I decided to leave Avalara. And take this leap with with flavored cloud is to trust your your guts. You know, those of us who work in international trade, we are similarly passionate, we're all a little bit wrong. In our brains, we're all a little different. Because we all love something about this space so much. But trust what feels right for you. If a role doesn't feel right, if you don't feel like you're being respected. If you don't feel that you're being heard, if you think that there's a better way to do something. I just say, do it, and apologize later, trust what the little voice inside you is saying because that little voice is often right. Your gut instinct is often the right instinct, don't settle. Don't do something just because that's the way it's always been done. And that's it, you don't think you can do it differently. Especially like I said, especially in trade compliance, where people are so afraid to do something different. The industry needs you to be different. And I think the last thing, I'll just kind of iterate off the same idea. But the last thing I'll say on it is to, you know, going back to the innovation conversation, this is gonna sound weird, but some of my greatest successes have come from trying to work myself out of a job. If every time I tried to automate something I did whether I had to automate a report, because I didn't want to spend three hours every week running a report. Or when I was at Costco, I wrote my very first classification app, because you can imagine how many items were reclassified at Costco? Like how do I do this? I'm one human being. I've tried to write an app. And that took me to, you know, my next place at Amazon, it was how do I innovate to apply trade compliance to this new rising you know, body of seller, like if I I'm just constantly try to innovate and in automate myself out of a job, great things happen on the other side, so don't be afraid of doing something better. Because you think you want that job security, there's, there's so much more work to be done. Not to be afraid of that. So that would be my advice for anyone getting into or wanting to get into this space.
Kellie Kemock 44:31
That is great, because I was actually talking with one of my contacts is in her first role in trade compliance, and she's worried that she's not being utilized. You know, she's not being utilized to the extent that she knows that she can, she can add more value. And the only thing I could advise her was, well, if you're sure that this is the right company for you, then you need to ask you need to talk and you just say, you know, can I do more can I learn this, can I help you with that? I mean, you, you have to just be able to ask, but more so to what you were just talking about was, don't be afraid to leave. I know that's probably bad. Maybe most require advice. But don't be afraid to leave so many different options.
Amy Morgan 45:17
Well, don't be that that for sure. And I stand by that. But I would say to this person, have her give me a call, because I can if she loves the company, yes asked you all those things. Of course, that's all great employee stuff to do. But why not just take the initiative and try doing something differently if you think if you have to run the same report, and it's super boring, and it's really lame that you have to do this one before? Like, what if you automated that report? Or what if you approach the role a little bit differently without asking for new stuff, you go out and find the new stuff, and start doing it? And like I said, do it and then apologize later? Or do it and then people will realize Well, how did we ever live without you? How are we not doing this before? Gosh, I could give her a million ideas just right here about about what to do and, and if she's still bored, tell her to call me I've got lots of stuff to do over.
Kellie Kemock 46:08
Actually. And that was the other thing I love about talking with all these women on the podcast is because every single person that I have talked to is absolutely open to helping and giving advice. And like you said, you know, haven't call me everyone is open to that. And so, you know, just to touch quickly on the mentoring piece is, most people you will meet in Jay compliance are willing to mentor you if they have the time. Obviously, everyone's busy. And they will be honest with you. But most people have this inherent, you know, want to share their knowledge and help others. So, I love that.
Amy Morgan 46:46
Like what good is it all for if you don't have somebody to share it all? With whether it's you and I getting together once a week, once a month to pontificate on innovations? Or if it's in mentoring doesn't have to be really heavyweight either, right? I don't have a ton of time. I do I make time to have coffees with people and to try to pay it all forward. Because I've had so many great experiences in my career. But some of the best and easiest mentoring is you hit me up on LinkedIn. Amy heard your podcast, I am struggling in my career because I feel like I'm being underutilized. Like, I can fire you back in email or a LinkedIn message faster than maybe it would take us to coordinate a meet up, right like so that mentoring doesn't have to be this big formal thing. It could just be reaching out over social media asking a question. And you don't have to have just one mentor either. I've had so many mentors. I've got mentors that don't even know they're my mentors. My husband is actually one of my mentors. I mean, this guy's amazing. And I'm learning from him every day. People I work with coworkers are mentors. And it's just I think it all comes back to just have a support group or support unit doesn't have to be heavy and formal. It can be something really simple, but just don't be afraid to ask.
Kellie Kemock 48:03
Yeah, absolutely. And that's the point of connecting. That's the point of talking is you know, let's let's all do this together and share ideas and share encouragement. So, I love that we can we can leave it there. Really appreciate your time today and it has been so great talking with you. I feel like I'm renewed in like my love of drinking pints.
Amy Morgan 48:25
No, it was super fun. I love this and like you I love connecting.