Patricia Marseille, Director Supply Chain Management
Ms. Patricia Marseille discusses her entry into the field of international trade and how she was able to transition between many different sectors such as micro-electronics, defense technology, oil & gas, textiles, and now consumer goods. She explains how a benchmarking activity early on in her career really gave her that broad understanding of compliance work and how company culture plays into the perception of the trade compliance role. It is evident throughout this episode that she has a passion for leadership development. Her executive leadership coaching aims to ease career transition from “operations” to “managing” by developing key leadership skills.
Find out more at her website: https://www.pmmarseille.com/
The membership in organizations discussed in the episode can help build or expand a career and can be found at these websites: - International Compliance Professionals Association (ICPA): https://www.icpainc.org/ - The Society for International Affairs (SIA) https://siaed.org/ Contact us:
Email: womenintradepodcast@gmail.com
Twitter: @Tradepodcast
Full episode transcript:
Introduction (00:01):
Welcome to Women In Trade, a podcast for up and coming professionals like you in the field of international trade. Kellie Kemock is your guide on this journey, an accomplished lawyer and trade compliance consultant who's passionate about helping young women navigate this complex field equipping you with the tools and resources you'll need to pursue an exciting and meaningful career. You'll hear candid interviews with other successful female leaders and benefit from their experience. It's time to build the career of your dreams. Here's your host, Kellie Kemock.
Kellie Kemock (00:41):
On today's podcast we have Patricia Marseille. She is a director of Supply Chain Management and I'm so excited to have her on the podcast today. Thank you so much for your time and your insight and to get things started, can we start with how you got into trade and where you are today?
Patricia Marseille (01:04):
Absolutely. So I'm Patricia Marseille. I am an executive. I am actually director of trade management over at the Walt Disney Company. I am not here to speak on behalf of the company. I'm here to speak on behalf of myself. And when it comes to the rest of my professional history or current state of being, I also function as a leadership development coach. I produce phenomenal diverse leaders through my leadership coaching and I also conduct these feminine energy virtual retreats for professional women who are looking to actually come back into oneness with themselves because we live in a very male dominated space and when it comes to how we bring ourselves into the office, we tend to only think in that male dominated energy and we have to come as ourselves in coming balance and bringing our feminine energy as well. So that's what made me create the retreat.
(02:08):
Back to your question, when it comes to my history and how I started, so that's one of the beauties of the trade compliance space, is that diversity. And I love the fact that I actually started while I was in college, I started as an intern in college. I was actually studying law. I wanted to do corporate law and was looking at international business and I came into at and t at the time to have an internship in their international marketing team. Hated it. I was there for two weeks and I hated it, Hated everything about the process. I had a beautiful mentor at the time who checked in with me and I ended up telling my mentor how much I hated the process. I did not like the group I was in. He asked me what I was really looking for and I said international exposure.
(03:04):
That's the main reason why I came to this group. And he placed me, he switched me from that group to their trade compliance team, was the first time that I ever heard of such a team and what it is that they did fell in love with it. And from there I came back the following year for an internship, graduated, worked for the company and never left the field ever since. So I pretty much transitioned from there from the micro electronics, electronics technology field into defense technology. So think chemical, biological warfare detection equipment and moved from there to oil and gas industry, textile. And then made my way after a year sabbatical of really taking a break from my career to figure out who I am and where my joy and self love was that I moved out, did a year away and then came back into the industry and found my way into Disney.
Kellie Kemock (04:14):
Wonderful. It sounds like you have so many different exposures to so many different industries. How different were all of those industries that you worked in?
Patricia Marseille (04:24):
Yeah, they are definitely extremely different <laugh> in hopping from one space to the other. But the beauty of that is I'm a very curious person, and that's one thing I have to say about trade compliance. When it comes to a technical skill. If you have a deep sense of curiosity, you will excel in this space. Hands down. I don't care what position it is, whether it's import or export, as long as you are a curious person, it is super easy to excel. And that's how I started in this space. So bringing in the compliance aspect of what we do in any industry is what allows us to maintain that standard. So it's that standard understanding of I'm working with customs, I am working with import compliance, I am working with export compliance. Now the nuances in that is depending on the technology or the product that you are working with, because I've had to work both on tangible exports and imports as well as intangible meaning software and technology and blueprints and technical designs.
(05:43):
So I've had all of those different ends of the spectrum, but only because I was super curious, otherwise I could have come here and told you, or maybe I wouldn't even be here, but <laugh>, it would be me sitting in the position of only dealing with tangible exports, staying in the electronics area, and really only dealing with microchips and technology throughout my entire career. But it's my curiosity that brought me to, well, I hear that defense technology and working in the defense field is difficult. What does that mean? And everyone was telling me like, Oh my goodness, you don't really wanna get into that. It's kind of crazy. And of course my fingers went up as to in that case, I wanna know. And I ended up going ahead and applying for a position in the defense area, stepped into that space and went ahead and grew in that space and really dug into the information there.
Kellie Kemock (06:49):
So some regulations are the same through all of these industries, but you had to learn new regulations too. So how difficult was that to make that transition?
Patricia Marseille (07:02):
Great question. Because the information between defense compliance versus commercial compliance is extreme, right? They're very, very different. The beauty is that there has been a merger in my career throughout my career between the two by the government. So now you actually have defense technology notated within the commerce regulations. Before it was No, it's this book for commercial, it's this book for defense, and they are totally separate. The beauty about this space is that now within the industry you have these social groups like within BIS or the Bureau of Industry and Security when it comes to export compliance. You have social groups like I cpa, right, which is the International Compliance Professionals Association. And that group provides an opening for people who are looking to learn all areas of commercial compliance and they give a little bit of insight on defense. Every now and then you have a social group like sia, which is the Society of International Affairs, in my opinion, they are phenomenal and they are the group that really digs into defense technology and compliance and truly are handholding in ensuring that the novice learners have everything they need to grow and excel in that space.
(08:48):
And they tend to also implement commercial compliance information as well. So the way that I was able to quickly learn and adapt in moving from commercial compliance into defense compliance was utilizing those platforms and really helping me to connect with those who had the knowledge, get the condensed version of information from those who have already traveled the journey before me and then excelling from there.
Kellie Kemock (09:26):
Absolutely. I tell people that I feel like I grew up in I C P A, those conferences really taught me everything that I know, but again, I'm not defense. I'm not focused on the defense sector. So I love that you are able to provide that resource for those who maybe want to learn more about the defense sector.
Patricia Marseille (09:47):
Yeah. SIA is, when I say they're stellar group, they are an excellent group for learning defense technology compliance, and even commercial, I mean they are focused on defense, but they do address commercial compliance as well. They are very much tied hand in hand with government officials. Government officials come to their forums and actually speak on the new regulations. They speak to the team, the people who are there and trying to figure out, here's a scenario that I'm trying to deal with unofficially, can we talk about this? And then we can unofficially talk about it and let's work through it. Because in that forum, it's about truly helping each one of the individuals there to really work with the regulations and not feel that they don't really have a support system. So that's the beauty of that. And you are able to actually connect with other individuals on true subject matter experts.
(11:01):
So if you have something like an agreement that you need to do, a technology agreement that you need to do for defense, it's if you're doing an agreement overseas with someone and you need a license for it, that would be identified as a technology agreement just to have those, that thought sharing session that you can connect with subject matter experts within SIA to actually talk through some of that stuff instead of, All right, this is my first time doing this license. Oh my goodness, okay, I think I understand. I've read all the regulations, I understand the paperwork. Hopefully I have this right. No, you can actually check in with one of the experts to say, Okay, bodily wise, here are some of the things that I've put in without getting into the details of what you're putting in there for proprietary purposes. But you can walk through the key elements of what you've got down, the logic of your, what you're submitting, and from there, gain the support from someone to say, You wanna add this detail, you wanna remove that, and you wanna make sure you notate this. That'll absolutely help you and you'll get that passed. So it's a beautiful process.
Kellie Kemock (12:15):
So changing gears just a little bit, talking about those who might be looking to get into this career, can we talk about any advice that you might have for those up and coming, maybe just out of college or even career shifts if they're wanting to make a career change, maybe they are mid-career, but wanting to get into this space What advice would you have for that demographic of people who are interested in the field but don't know how to make that first step?
Patricia Marseille (12:48):
So for the novice, I would do actually what happened by happenstance for me in me stepping into this space my first year out of college, the very first thing that I did, which was the thing that I offered, because I truly felt like I only got a little taste of trade compliance as an intern, I was able to do a little bit of here, a little bit of that, but not really understanding the breadth of the subject. I offered to do a benchmark on best in class when it came to trade compliance. What is it? I asked all of my leadership, did they know what it was? Did they know what best in class was? How are they able to see it? These reports that they're getting externally from big companies, what does that mean internally? And once everyone realized, yeah, we're not really able to translate that to what we do here that I offer to, Hey, how about we do it with at least three of our competitors and three of our clients and really see what's this synergy and what are the things that are completely off and how we can make this work.
(14:06):
It gave me great insight into the world of trade compliance. It was perfect for learning all of the key aspects of import compliance, export compliance of the structure of a compliance organization, what truly works, what kind of collaboration is required, what kind of engagements are needed, what type of agreements should be settled when it comes to systems and practices. Huge insight. So that's what I would do if I was a novice starting all over again. I would start up the same way to say, Can I do a benchmark on what is the best practice? How do we know that we are best in class in this organization? Especially if you're a part of an enterprise, like a company, like the company I'm a part of, right? It's such a huge enterprise. How do you know this is best in class here? How do you know this is working in this company, and how do you know that what we're doing is actually working to the betterment of our clients and at least puts us up to par with some of our competitors?
(15:25):
So that's what I would recommend for the novice, for those who are looking to shift in their career it really is starting in some of the places like the social groups that I referenced, the social groups like I CPA or SIA taking a different course where maybe you've gone to I cpa and you're normally taking part in the export compliance forums that are there. At some point it's like second nature to you. You may be getting a little bit of updates or insight from going to those sessions, but you could really read that information online and get the same info switch over to the export side, give yourself some of that exposure and learn in that space.
Kellie Kemock (16:18):
So basically what you did, you had to go and interview the trade compliance group of each of these companies and kind of document what they did and then you did a comparison.
Patricia Marseille (16:29):
Totally. Yeah. So I actually, I convinced my leadership that, cuz at first it was we're not going to actually get an in with these
Kellie Kemock (16:43):
Exactly. Your competitors, why are they answering your questions?
Patricia Marseille (16:48):
And for me it was, well, if we actually give them something of value, they will. And my whole point was, if we make this something of value for everyone, then everyone wins. And although I knew for myself, I'm going, the value for me is just having exposure to all of this information for my company, it was having the insight of how to do things better. And then for the competitors, it was having the insight of what are the best practices and being able to hold that claim if they are the best of the best. And then for our clients, it was how to ensure that we're going to do things to the best of our ability for their service. So everyone had a win. That was a valuable element to each one of it. Now, how I went about delivering that was where everyone was kind of like, All right, how do you keep it all separate?
(17:50):
So that's where you bring legal in and you do your non-disclosures and you ensure nothing will be leaked. And really just having a lot of shorties on the face to face. So for my benchmarks, I've really spent good quality time in getting to know the key parties that wanted to be a part of the benchmark. So it was really understanding the companies. At one point, it actually was interesting cuz I did it three competitors, three customers, but we had six competitors who wanted to be a part of the benchmark. And I had to work that down as to, okay, we're like we have 30, 35 questions here. There's no way to really manage this to try to have six competitors, we just need the top three and work through it. And so it was really just, alright, let me build the relationship with these guys, have an understanding of what their business is, how they do things, speak to the complica, the complexities of what they deal with from a trade perspective, and then start to talk through the challenge.
(19:07):
So it was really just bringing in a different school of thought to them at the table. So many of them were going, this is what we're doing, We do compliance, well, we're able to get this done. And for me it was, but do you know what you don't know? Do you know what your challenges are? Do you know what your blind spots are? Do you know where the dark spots are? Do when it comes to dealing with customs, how they really feel about you within the world of customs? Not just through one port, right? Do you know what that general feeling is? How do you feel in regards to indirect tax and really trying to manage things like assist and working through the management of having a taxable presence in a country that you're not used to having trade management in. How are you guys working that out? So these
Kellie Kemock (20:07):
Are tough questions,
Patricia Marseille (20:11):
But that was what they appreciated was these aren't things we were chewing on necessarily, right? Because they're going, these are things we're managing and we're managing it well and these systems work. So it was well, but what are the areas of opportunity for you? Just because of red flag hasn't been waived, doesn't mean that it won't be waived. So the way that you can put in the foundation for preventative measures before you get there and then really starting to speak to them on strategy and what is it that you guys wanna do on that perspective? And you gotta think, this was early in my career and I had come from doing the marketing at and t for those two weeks, which I hated, but it did give me great exposure into marketing strategy. And that information stuck with me because when I had the conversation with these guys on, Okay, let's talk about what this benchmark can do for you, what it brings to the table, I brought in the conversation a strategy or I'm going, I know where compliance based. I know that's the thing that we tend to look at. Compliance, compliance, compliance. How are you connecting it with strategy? Your business is moving forward and growing exponentially. So how are you guys connecting that?
(21:41):
Wait a second. And so those are the things that I think if a novice brings to the table, cuz again, compliance, we tend to get into the low of getting the compliance work done and making sure shipments get cleared and passed through. But if you take a few steps back and you look at the strategy that's been designed for those shipments, is there an easier, better way of addressing that compliance instead of waiting to the end of the line? Can you address it much early on so that because it's a part of the strategy, you're not dealing with the stress of time <affirmative>, you're able to bring in those concepts into the conversation of the potential benchmark, then those are things that can help accelerate someone saying yes.
Kellie Kemock (22:39):
And how much does corporate culture play into this strategy and getting trade compliance ingrained early on. There has to be some sort of corporate culture to allow that. Did you see anything in your benchmarking about culture?
Patricia Marseille (22:59):
Oh, for sure. So even outside of my benchmarking, cuz throughout my career I've seen the resistance in regards to really looking at trying to allow trade compliance at the table at a strategy table. And it's all really a matter of delivery. And that's where a lot of trade compliance professionals need to truly be mindful because historically, many professionals have stepped into the, or stepped before the strategy table with, let me tell you all the things you can't do. And that's not a strategy session. No one's coming to that table to have that discussion. A strategy session is let's look at all the possibilities and let's talk to all the ways that we can possibly make this come to life. And that's where a compliance person has to put on a completely different hat because compliance is telling you, these are my restrictions. And when you are in trade compliance, that's where you have to begin to think compliance trade, trade compliance, I'm going to put on my trade hat.
(24:26):
My trade hat tells me that there are tons of possibilities here. And with all of these possibilities, where are all the areas of gray? Where's all the gray spaces in which there are many ways we can innovate and do some creative things and make things happen with those gray spaces? What are my hard, solid black lines and when it comes to compliance that keep me from moving forward, sideways in whatever dynamic way that I'm looking to do this. So I think it's really just getting your head around that. The fact that you wear two different hats and that you wear one in one instance when you're actually managing the operations, but you wear the other when you are dealing with strategy and corporate and engagement and partnership and really looking at communication with your partners.
Kellie Kemock (25:24):
My next question would be, if someone is job hunting how can they tell whether the culture of their potential company is a good culture? How can they tell that trade compliance is in a good space in this particular company? If they're debating between a couple of different roles, how do they make that decision and what can they do to see that from the outside?
Patricia Marseille (25:52):
So that question has many lanes and the reason why it does is because it depends on the individual's definition of culture and what it is that they are looking for when it comes to that trade compliance culture. So for someone like myself in having a seasoned career, for me, strategy is important in regards to culture and where does trade compliance fit when it comes to strategy and moving the business forward. For someone else, it may be a matter of respecting compliance and really having their voice heard when it comes to we cannot do this or this isn't allowed, or there's a sanction for another. It may be a matter of exposure and really having compliance engaged in the business and having an understanding beyond supply chain where it's understood in product development and product integrity and sourcing in legal. So because each bucket has a different mode it'll have a different answer as to how someone would step into that space.
(27:18):
But since I've only named three, I'm gonna try to go on each bucket. So the, I'll go with the last bucket, which is the one on exposure. If you're stepping into a company and you're trying to figure out where does that trade compliance group stand, one of the key questions you can ask is, when it comes to the team, what's the engagement with other groups? How far does that reach go? Is it just the systems access or does the team actually get involved in other people's staff meetings? Like that right there gives you really clear picture on what the team's engagement is. If it's compliance and whether or not compliance is held to high regard in the company pretty much you're ultimately testing whether or not the company is integrity based. You start to ask the questions of, so what happens when something requires a license?
(28:30):
How do you guys manage that? Who actually sees that? Can anyone override that decision? Is there a level in the company that makes a final call? Those are some of the things that will give you very clear picture on whether it's integris on compliance in that space. And then on the strategy side, it's really just coming to the table and stating, so what's the health of your compliance team? How far into the strategy of product and service is the trade compliance team? Where exactly are the lines drawn? And are there any lines between the trade team and dealing with upper management or strategy or product development? So those are the three buckets. And the three ways that I would say are to address that,
Kellie Kemock (29:39):
And to be perfectly honest, I mean that's the mistake that I made my first job offer in trade compliance was I didn't ask the proper questions and I quit after two weeks because I walked in and my limited knowledge of trade compliance, I was like, That's a violation, that's a violation. And I was like, I can't fix this. I have to get out of here. And so I mean, I wanted to try to avoid that for people, other people coming into the field, it's like you gotta make sure that your company is a good place for you to get that knowledge and that you're not walking into something that maybe was above your head. It was for me.
Patricia Marseille (30:20):
And another key question to ask in looking at whether or not it's integris is to speak to time versus compliance. When asking the question of if you have an urgent shipment, someone comes with an urgent shipment, but it's seen that this item requires a license, what do you guys tend to do? How do you tend to address that? Is that something you set aside and then you start to work through it? Or is that something where you're actually pushing through, really review, taking another look at the classification, maybe sending it off to someone else or sending it off to someone else. Even that will tell you if they're saying like, Oh, well, we'll send it through a couple of other people to really make sure that right there, so this role won't be respected, right? Cause that's letting you know they're not going to take your word for it, it's going to be passed on. So it's really just getting into presenting a problem that is tied to your concern of culture and then using that answer to identify the culture.
Kellie Kemock (31:37):
Do you see that there's a change in our industry where people are actually choosing this career field? Because I'm heard so many times I just fell into it. I was asked to do it, and it's just something I didn't even know it existed. And then now here, I love it. So do you agree that this generation maybe has a different path, a different entrance into this field?
Patricia Marseille (32:03):
Yeah. Well, I think it's dealing with a half and half. I think that we're growing in a space where there's better exposure to the point that colleges have created courses around this, which is great. So I think that there's the beauty of that on the other end is where there's the lack of mentorship and sponsorship and sharing of insight and information from those of us who have been in this field for quite some time, that causes a lot of the younger generation to really not even have any idea what this is and what this and have any exposure to this team or to this type of field where for them, they run into this field because they're working in logistics or they're working in supply chain or something happened and so all of the sudden they get enlightened to Wait a second, What is it that you do and how do you guys do that? And wow, that's a lot of stuff you guys do. So I think it's a half and half shift that's happening right now versus before where it was nothing and everybody's just kind of tripped into it.
Kellie Kemock (33:23):
So you still think that there's a lot of on the job training, learning that has to happen no matter what kind of educational background someone would have?
Patricia Marseille (33:33):
Absolutely. It's interesting because I feel like when it comes to, it's kind of getting your broker license, it's a given, it's a known in the industry, even by all of the customs agents that yes, you can go ahead and get your broker's license, but there are many things that you've learned in regards to how you go about doing things that in practical application is not done that way. So everything about how we operate and how we function, it's like, oh, but I learned that through my brokerage license that this is how we're supposed to do it, but you're not gonna be able to get that shipment cleared and get it across this way. The systems don't do that <laugh> when you're talking to a customs agent, it doesn't do that. So they're just a bunch of little nuances that helps you to really work through processes versus doing everything by the book or by a course or by a regulatory standing.
Kellie Kemock (34:40):
Well, the next topic that I wanted to discuss was mentoring, but also because you have your leadership development, we only have 15 minutes left and I wanted to give you the option, should we talk about mentoring or I love your leadership development opportunity and so would love to hear more about that as well.
Patricia Marseille (35:04):
Sure. We can actually end up tying them together. That's the main reason why I created the leadership coaching and to really have that business be a space where leaders can truly be developed in standing in their space in confidence. Because I think one of the key mistakes that are made is that people are constantly promoted for having great performance and doing a great job, but not prepared to be a leader. So you get promoted and it's, okay, great, now you're gonna manage some people because your performance was so great. So your mindset is still on operating and it's still on ensuring that performance is the result. But managing people is guiding people to be great performers like you were. And to ensure that you have the skills in order to manage that space efficiently and effectively is where most companies are failing. So for me was I wanted to be the change that I wish I saw, I dealt with my career very hands on because the mentors I was looking for, the sponsors I was looking for, they weren't there.
(36:34):
So for me it was, I need to create this space for myself. I need to acquire these skills, Whatever the battle is, I need to just do it. And I spent a lot of time and a lot of money really, really diving into that to the point that now I'm going, I've mastered this so well that I need to be able to provide an avenue to give to other women to get it in a consolidated state, right? Because instead of you taking years of time to try to get what I've gained, now I know how to give it to you within an hour, within a few minutes. Most of my clients are first hour. They're like, Oh my gosh, right? Because they've learned so many key things that they're able to move forward in. And the way in which I provide leadership guidance is that I always wanna leave you in a state in which it's not just head knowledge, it's also heart knowledge so that you are dealing with the consumption of information with a little bit of homework to seal it in. So it's really being able to move forward in that way so that when you're standing in your leadership positions, you truly own it and no one questions that because they're looking at you like, Wow, you're a great performer and you know how to guide, Where do you wanna go from here?
Kellie Kemock (38:07):
And your clients aren't just trade specific. I mean, it sounds like this is open for women in any professional setting.
Patricia Marseille (38:17):
Exactly. It's any woman who is finding herself in leadership. I also, I just recently put up a program for specifically women of color who are looking to either move in promotion within their roles or an increase in salary within their roles. And I did that one mainly because of the huge disparity that's been identified between a black human salary and a white human salary. Just the giant gap that's there. And I started to realize through, actually through some of the people that I've been coaching directly, that many people really don't have a real understanding of how to have that conversation that ensures that you get that increase. So it's all a matter of being equipped to have the dialogue efficiently and effectively to have all your key elements in place and then drive that conversation to drive the result.
Kellie Kemock (39:36):
Well, I think we just have to leave it there because that is just amazing. And I hope all the listeners can just have the goosebumps that I have right now because it's so encouraging to hear you lay out this vision that you have. So I really, really appreciate your time today, and thank you so much for your insight and I, I'm really encouraged with all this conversation that we've had. So thank you very much.
Patricia Marseille (39:59):
Thank you. Such an honor to be here. I appreciate this forum and all that you are doing to truly help us connect and stay connected. So thank you.